Journal of an OCC bandster

[NoWorry]

Whoaaa there, there is NOTHING preferable about being slightly overfilled. It is pretty dangerous. Overfills are responsible for slips and erosion. Drinking water causes one to slime and barf with even a slight overfill. But I do agree, fills are an art and not a science.

I was thinking that a slight overfill would lead to more rapid weight loss which should then optimize the fill fairly quickly. So a slight overfill would be self-fixing while an underfill can only be fixed by a return trip. Still, your point is well taken.

However, these are all relative terms anyway. One person's feeling of overfill or optimal fill is just that - a personal feeling. Since there's no real way of measuring, it really just depends on each individual's expectation rather than an absolute. What's missing, I think, is a scientific metric. Perhaps a measured dose of barium and a timed passage through the stoma? And the metric should ideally be the length of time it takes X amount of barium to pass through the band, rather than the amount of saline in the band which is a fairly useless measurement, IMO.

[PAMMIE]

Whoaaa there, there is NOTHING preferable about being slightly overfilled. It is pretty dangerous. Overfills are responsible for slips and erosion. Drinking water causes one to slime and barf with even a slight overfill. But I do agree, fills are an art and not a science.

I HAVE TO AGREE. ASK MY FRIEND THAT LOST HER BAND LAST MONTH. SHE WANTED THAT BAND TIGHT, SHE GOT IT WITH ONE FILL.

ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY, IT TAKES TIME TO FIND THE RIGHT SPOT. THERE ARE DAYS WHEN I THINK WELL MAYBE JUST A SLIGHT MORE, MAYBE, NO!!! I WANT TO EAT LIKE A NORMAL PERSON. NOT DRINK PROTEIN SHAKES AND PB MY WAY THROUGH THIS LIFE AND RISK LOSING THIS TOOL

I'M IN THIS FOR THE LONG HAUL

[Adenabeth]

I am preparing to have this done. Can you please tell me how you felt after the surgey and if I would be able to go back to an office job after a couple of days?

[NoWorry]

I am preparing to have this done. Can you please tell me how you felt after the surgey and if I would be able to go back to an office job after a couple of days?

Each individual's response to pain and recovery is different, but I felt pretty close to normal a couple of days after the surgery. In addition to physical considerations, I also had to deal with emotional factors and making changes in my lifestyle. I gave myself 3 days to recover and created a situation where I could extend it to as much as a week if the need arose. I was back to a normal routine by the 4th day.

[newgirl]

Hi No Worry,

Thank you for your thorough, interesting and informative posts. I appreciate the way you approach and solve issues with facts, logic and science. I'm extremely analytical myself so this is my preferred language to speak. I'm definitely a thinking rather than a feeling personality type.

In fact, one way I eased my boyfriend's mind over my upcoming Aug. 6 procedure was by explaining to him the scientific research and thinking process I had done prior to making this decision. I didn't do this because I "felt" it was the right thing to do, although that is certainly the case. I will have this surgery because I believe it is the most viable intervention to what I believe are significant health risks due to a family history of obesity and related conditions.

Thanks again and keep posting!

[NoWorry]

Thanks again and keep posting!

You're very welcome. And good luck with your Aug 6 surgery!

[NoWorry]

Well, it's exactly one month since my first fill and even after having 5 adjustments on that trip, I have virtually no restriction at all at any time of the day or night. I have just made another appointment to go back to TJ for a fill on 8/7. I'm trying hard to ignore the voice in the back of my mind that's saying that this whole thing is a big scam!

[2thebeach]

I am preparing to have this done. Can you please tell me how you felt after the surgey and if I would be able to go back to an office job after a couple of days?

i have an office job too and i will fly out thursday, have surgery in friday, spend saturday walking around and resting, fly back sunday adn go back to work on monday... everyone that i have talked to says i'll feel well enough to return to work in 2 or 3 days as long as i walk alot to help with the gas pains.. dallas

[BSN]

I was thinking that a slight overfill would lead to more rapid weight loss which should then optimize the fill fairly quickly. So a slight overfill would be self-fixing while an underfill can only be fixed by a return trip. Still, your point is well taken.

However, these are all relative terms anyway. One person's feeling of overfill or optimal fill is just that - a personal feeling. Since there's no real way of measuring, it really just depends on each individual's expectation rather than an absolute. What's missing, I think, is a scientific metric. Perhaps a measured dose of barium and a timed passage through the stoma? And the metric should ideally be the length of time it takes X amount of barium to pass through the band, rather than the amount of saline in the band which is a fairly useless measurement, IMO.

No, not necessarily. A slight overfill that results in rapid weight loss and a looser band means that you are banking on the fact that your body will lose weight around the band. We don't get to choose where our body decides to lose weight, it might be the band or it might be your left toe. An overfill is NEVER EVER a good idea. It is a great way to lose a band though.

Erosion... for a long time they didn't know how erosion happened. They thought it was due to smoking but lots of people lost their band to erosion and they didn't smoke. Same with NSAIDs. Now the current thinking is that erosion happens when the band is too tight. That can happen from placing a band that is too small for that patient or a fill that is too tight. That can be potentially life threatening.

So to bank on an overfill being fixed by weight loss is absolutely dead wrong, it's a gamble and you are banking on physiology that is out of your control to prove you right. That's quite a risk.

As for a scientific method of measuring barium traveling through a stoma.. it won't work. There are too many variables. First of all, ask any experienced bandster (someone a year or more out) about fills. Many times they don't kick in for two weeks after the fill. It makes no sense, I know. But it's true. Fill someone and have them drink barium and there is no guarantee it will look the same with the same fill in two weeks. Personally, my fills kick in every single time on day #3.

There are other issues to consider, where the person loses weight (their stomach fat pad, their butt, their legs, everywhere, etc.). One must consider how compliant the patient is. Will they follow the post-fill diet? You might be surprised at how many simply can't do it. Natural swelling on the part of the patient. A fill causes swelling in most people that lasts a day or three. There are more variables but the point is that this isn't a science and can't be one. It's an art.

I completely and totally without a doubt, 100%, disagree with you about overfills and weight loss fixing it. It's too dangerous and I don't know about you but I paid far too much for this band. I'm not risking my band or my health for losing a couple of pounds a little faster. It's just not bright. We didn't get fat overnight, we won't get skinny overnight either.

[BSN]

Well, it's exactly one month since my first fill and even after having 5 adjustments on that trip, I have virtually no restriction at all at any time of the day or night. I have just made another appointment to go back to TJ for a fill on 8/7. I'm trying hard to ignore the voice in the back of my mind that's saying that this whole thing is a big scam!

NoWorry...

You are still quite a newbie in every way! What you are thinking and feeling is absolutely normal. The time frame between getting the band and reaching your sweet spot is called "Bandster Hell" for a reason. You have this great tool but it isn't working and it is harder than it should be. Give it time, you'll get there.

[BSN]

i have an office job too and i will fly out thursday, have surgery in friday, spend saturday walking around and resting, fly back sunday adn go back to work on monday... everyone that i have talked to says i'll feel well enough to return to work in 2 or 3 days as long as i walk alot to help with the gas pains.. dallas

Yep... I totally agree. The day after my surgery I wanted to go shopping. I didn't, but it wasn't because I couldn't. The more you walk right after surgery the better you feel.

[NoWorry]

You have this great tool but it isn't working and it is harder than it should be. Give it time, you'll get there.

Thanks very much for the encouragement and the positive feedback. But on a practical level, how really do I get there? I have a feeling that both Dr. Romero and Dr. Acosta are throwing darts at a dartboard in a a darkened room with blindfolds on and my chances of hitting the sweet spot is totally random.

Studies have already shown that the chances of success at a given endeavor reduce dramatically with each false start - humans try successively less hard with each attempt at the same task. I'm already feeling my motivation start to diminish as the doubts of my conviction of success escalate.

[BSN]

Thanks very much for the encouragement and the positive feedback. But on a practical level, how really do I get there? I have a feeling that both Dr. Romero and Dr. Acosta are throwing darts at a dartboard in a a darkened room with blindfolds on and my chances of hitting the sweet spot is totally random.

Studies have already shown that the chances of success at a given endeavor reduce dramatically with each false start - humans try successively less hard with each attempt at the same task. I'm already feeling my motivation start to diminish as the doubts of my conviction of success escalate.

You get there by being on top of fills at all times. Get them every 2-4 weeks if you have to until you reach your sweet spot. The average person typically requires 3-5 fills before they get restriction they are happy with. I'm guessing you got a newbie fill for your first fill, most good docs do that. You have to take restriction in stages at first. Since you've already had a fill you are likely to get a much more aggressive fill the next time.

Studies show chances of success... yes, but they were not referring to the weird things that go on with the human body. You can't always apply scientific studies to the human body because the body simply won't cooperate. It does what it wants and it does what it wants in its own good time. Fills especially. I'd go back for another if I were you. No sooner than 2 weeks after your last fill. You have a 10cc band as I recall, true? I'll bet it will take 4-5 fills before you are completely happy.

When you get a fill WATCH the fluoro for yourself, see the difference in how fast the barium travels before the fill vs. after the fill, note the size of the barium stream as it drains into your big stomach. Guzzle some water before he removes the needle and see if you feel it. If you don't, talk to him, voice your experiences. When it comes to guzzling water you want to feel a difference but you don't want to feel pain or discomfort. If you feel discomfort with water it will be x10 worse with food or even soft foods. You want to feel some restriction but again, not pain or discomfort. You are looking for a difference in how it feels to quickly drink water before the fill and after the fill.

I can't stress enough that you are absolutely normal, you are going through bandster hell. But I swear to you, this is better than an overfill. I lived with stoma swelling and stomach spasms for the first 6 months of banding. There were days I couldn't keep water down let alone spit. It was miserable and horrible. I lost 70lbs in 5 months and I swear to you, that is NOT the way you want to do it. And I had NO fill. I would barf 30+ times weekly. It was beyond horrible and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. I got IV fluids so many times that I now keep IV Saline, and IV start kit, and an IV pump at home. A friend is also an RN so she can start the IV for me. It's because swelling and stomach spasms are the same as an overfill. It's sheer misery. I'm on meds now and it is a difference between night and day. I was sooo ready to have my band removed, then the problem was diagnosed and treated. Now I'm fine. But an overfill.. you don't want it. It's just awful.

Bandster hell is part of the game, it's a necessary element of banding. It gets better, when you finally do reach your sweet spot you'll realize it was ALL worth it! In the meantime just keep practicing the bandster way of eating. Chewing your food into a paste, small bites, eating slowly, not drinking fluids with your food, protein first, then veggies, then carbs. Everything will fall into place but I fully understand how you feel. It's frustrating and beyond annoying for the time being. Give it time, it will happen. Then when you are skinny you'll look back on this time and laugh at your frustration. You'll be saying these same words to someone else someday. You mark my words, it will happen.

252/169/150

Banded 12/06

[Pam P]

Dear No Worry,

I have been thinking about you. This was just your first fill, right? You're allowing yourself to get discouraged too easily. I too am in shock that the whole fill business is so unscientific. I didn't realize that it was so totally trial and error... altough if I had really been paying attention and read between the lines a little, I might have surmised as much from these posts. Fact is, the money for the surgery has been spent so it only makes sense to try everything to make it work. I don't think it's a scam, because it's successful for too many people. I think it's all about the right fill, and unfortunately finding that can mean a number of trips. It seems to me that the VG bands in particular (I have the 4cc one, but from what I've read on these boards) usually requires more fills.

It's been a week since my second fill and I still have the same restriction, and am starting to get used to what it means to have it on almost all foods. I'm having to be very clever to work it so I can get enough food ... without it being melt in the mouth stuff. Frankly, it's great and I'm keeping my fingers crossed it lasts this way. I'm a very cautious person & don't like being disappointed, so I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

As I mentioned in my post, I stayed over night at the Lucerna so I could see how the fill was. It helped to take my time seeing the tightness before I decided it was just a speck too much. If you're not used to what "restriction" feels like (I had months of restriction on just a few foods to get used to it), it's easy to misjudge how much it is. I think as long as you can drink water and eat 1/4 to 1/3 cup of food it's not too tight, but I'm not sure about the how much food part. That's about all I can eat at a time.

Anyway, you go in a couple of days. Good luck! Be sure to post as soon as you get back. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[NoWorry]

You mark my words, it will happen.

As the saying goes: from your lips to god's ears.

I feel I was cheated and scammed that I was never informed that it would take 4-5 fills to find my sweet spot - the lies are clearly documented in Ortiz's book and not specified at all in 'Dummies'. I am working on adjusting my emotions to get past that and move forward from here. I want to have an open mind when I get my 2nd fill tomorrow.

Thanks for your encouragement. It's precious.

[NoWorry]

You're allowing yourself to get discouraged too easily.

You're definitely right and I'm beginning to see that. I am angry with the deception, but I am working on getting past that and revising my expectations. I am also working on a way to try and ensure that this happens less to future bandsters.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate the concern.

I've lost my enthusiasm and while I stayed overnight last time, I'm just not motivated this time nor convinced that an overnight stay improves my chances of success. However, I'm very curious to know why my last restriction ended just 2 weeks after my first fill - has the saline leaked, has my stoma unpuckered, do I have a defective band, has the band re-adjusted? But I'm not very hopeful of getting a conclusive answer, so I'm emotionally preparing myself for another vague and unscientific response.

And if it's another bust, I'm done with OCC; I'm going to give the local FillCenters a crack. While there's a lot to be said for OCC's high volume of fills, I want a relationship with my doctor and some feeling that he cares about my success and that I'm not just another statistic for him who is forgotten 3 minutes after I walk out the door.

[BSN]

As the saying goes: from your lips to god's ears.

I feel I was cheated and scammed that I was never informed that it would take 4-5 fills to find my sweet spot - the lies are clearly documented in Ortiz's book and not specified at all in 'Dummies'. I am working on adjusting my emotions to get past that and move forward from here. I want to have an open mind when I get my 2nd fill tomorrow.

Thanks for your encouragement. It's precious.

I understand your frustration. We've been fat for soooo long. We have tried everything and nothing works. Finally we fork over big bucks and a willingness to bust our fat butts to get this moving and that scale just doesn't move fast enough for a variety of reasons. Just know, it will happen. We didn't get fat overnight, it isn't going to go away overnight. While I realize that doesn't help the frustration, it's true.

My friend has a comment on his sig (different forum) that says he's never met anyone that was satisfied with their rate of weight loss. It's really true, we all want it NOW.

252/168/150

Banded 12/06

[BSN]

You're definitely right and I'm beginning to see that. I am angry with the deception, but I am working on getting past that and revising my expectations. I am also working on a way to try and ensure that this happens less to future bandsters.

Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate the concern.

I've lost my enthusiasm and while I stayed overnight last time, I'm just not motivated this time nor convinced that an overnight stay improves my chances of success. However, I'm very curious to know why my last restriction ended just 2 weeks after my first fill - has the saline leaked, has my stoma unpuckered, do I have a defective band, has the band re-adjusted? But I'm not very hopeful of getting a conclusive answer, so I'm emotionally preparing myself for another vague and unscientific response.

And if it's another bust, I'm done with OCC; I'm going to give the local FillCenters a crack. While there's a lot to be said for OCC's high volume of fills, I want a relationship with my doctor and some feeling that he cares about my success and that I'm not just another statistic for him who is forgotten 3 minutes after I walk out the door.

Don't lose your enthusiasm, it will come back. When things are working well and you see that scale move, all the sudden you have all kinds of excitement and motivation.

Try the water trick during your next fill. Bring water with you, room temp water so cold water doesn't cause a false sense of restriction.

252/168/150

Banded 12/06

[Vex]

I'd like to chime in and say that I am so thrilled to have been able to read NoWorry's journal during my pre-banding research phase. I think the more information and viewpoints available, the better. And I found the criticisms comforting in a way-- if the worst that went wrong was some scheduling problems, then that makes me feel all the better. Know what I mean?

[Teri]

No Worry!

Prepare yourself for frustration if your 2nd fill does not work for you. Or the 3rd or 4th. You will hit that sweet spot. Just hang on and keep believing. It took me to long to get there. I was thinking scam too, but didn't want to entertain the thought until I reached the sweet spot that everyone talks about. It was hell. I used to get silently pissed and irritated because it was hell trying to adjust, thinking the last fill was perfect, going from eating anything to becoming to tight, trying to get water down, etc. I'm at a point where I am losing, and believe me, it works. I refused to spend all this money for nothing. Restriction is real and you will lose once you are filled correctly. I honestly feel I have finally reached the right level for me just 2 months ago and I had been banded since Nov. 1, 2006. 8 months of hell and trying to stay motivated and positive was difficult. Very difficult. I hope and pray you do not have to go through 8 months of hell to get there as I did. If it takes a while to get there, it will be worth it in the end. With each fill that doesn't work, it is a huge disapointment.............. but you paid for the surgery, and the fill process unfortutantly and fortunatly is the key. I'm with ya.

Teri

[NoWorry]

I'd like to chime in and say that I am so thrilled to have been able to read NoWorry's journal during my pre-banding research phase. I think the more information and viewpoints available, the better. And I found the criticisms comforting in a way-- if the worst that went wrong was some scheduling problems, then that makes me feel all the better. Know what I mean?

It's very interesting you should say that. When a lot of people were jumping down my throat, I showed my journal to me editor. Her response was:

"So you're saying that the surgery was a big success, but there were a few minor logistical problems and frustrations, right? New patients should be a lot more receptive to that than a flawless, rosy picture. Especially since you're empowering them with preparedness for the little bumps!"

Thank you for confirming her assessment.

[NoWorry]

I honestly feel I have finally reached the right level for me just 2 months ago and I had been banded since Nov. 1, 2006. 8 months of hell and trying to stay motivated and positive was difficult. Very difficult. I hope and pray you do not have to go through 8 months of hell to get there as I did. If it takes a while to get there, it will be worth it in the end. With each fill that doesn't work, it is a huge disapointment.............. but you paid for the surgery, and the fill process unfortutantly and fortunatly is the key. I'm with ya.

Thanks for your feedback, Teri. I have been reading your posts with great interest and your story has been inspirational -although I must confess I wondered what kept you motivated through the ordeal (other than the huge investment, of course, and no reasonable way to back out). You have been far more patient and positive than I could ever hope to be.

Tell me, though, would you have recommended this surgery to a friend during those 8 months?

Would you recommend it now to someone who was looking for reasonably quick results - say, looking to lose 75 pounds in a year following surgery?

[dreamhappy07]

As the saying goes: from your lips to god's ears.

I feel I was cheated and scammed that I was never informed that it would take 4-5 fills to find my sweet spot - the lies are clearly documented in Ortiz's book and not specified at all in 'Dummies'. I am working on adjusting my emotions to get past that and move forward from here. I want to have an open mind when I get my 2nd fill tomorrow.

Thanks for your encouragement. It's precious.

Hi NoWorry,

Sorry to hear you are having doubts and problems with your fills. I have been asked how many fills will I need to get to lose all the weight I need to. I always answer that I have read about people with VG bands needing up to 5 or 6 fills in the first year after being banded. I guess it depends on the person and their needs and tolerances with certain levels of each fill. I know that the normal first fill is usually 4cc with the VG band, but I was only able to tolerate 3.2cc. Now, I know I need another one since the July 27th fill. I could tell about two weeks after. I cannot get one right now because of finances, but will for sure in a few weeks.

Good luck and hang in there. I hope all your future fills will be successful. I have read alot about people wanting to get to their "sweet spot" faster, but then suffer for it. Just be patient and you will reach that spot eventually.

Peace,

Judy

[Teri]

Thanks for your feedback, Teri. I have been reading your posts with great interest and your story has been inspirational -although I must confess I wondered what kept you motivated through the ordeal (other than the huge investment, of course, and no reasonable way to back out). You have been far more patient and positive than I could ever hope to be.

Tell me, though, would you have recommended this surgery to a friend during those 8 months?

Would you recommend it now to someone who was looking for reasonably quick results - say, looking to lose 75 pounds in a year following surgery?

No Worry, You hit it, right on.... Huge investment, and no reasonable way to back out. (It had to work)

Boy, I really had to think on your questions. Not so quick to answer, that's for sure. Hang on, going to get a cup of caffiene. heheh

I'm struggling.

Recommending the surgery to a friend during the 8 months..................

Yes, I still had belief, and No, it hadn't started working for me, yet.

Each person is different and every person's body will react differently to their band. Fact. You can consider yourself VERY LUCKY, because I believe it is luck, if you reach your sweet spot with 1 fill.

I think I wanted to believe in this process so bad, because I knew in my mind for us, this would be the ONLY weight loss attempt that would permanetly end the vicious cycle of losing, gaining, dieting, gaining, etc. if it worked. I kept very quiet about the surgery to many friends, and to this day, that remains.

If it wasn't for the testimony's I read, I don't think I would have had the surgery. Basically, because of the unknown. Reading both positive and negative testimony's (mainly negative) because it's eaiser to be drawn to the good, and I wanted to know what I would be up against if it didn't work for me. I researched every waking minute I had available and realized the fills were the key to this process.

Every month (card club) I would face a wonderful friend who was so excited for us and she would ask how it was going. I dreaded going because I knew she would be excited to learn how much Kyle and I lost for that month. I then would explain, it's a much slower process then bybass and adjustments are the key and were just not there yet.

Would I recommend it..........quick results............75 pounds in a year...........(it's a loaded question) I still would recommend it, but as far as quick results, it may or may not happen because your fills dictate your success and 75 pounds in a year all depends on a lot of differnet scenarios.

In my situation, I am a rebble. I don't diet with the band. I wanted the band to work for me, I didn't want to work for the band (food choices). Since I paid the $8500 I needed this to work. If I made better food choices (diet food), I would have lost a lot more weight. I refuse to diet because I can do that without the band and lose. (why would I have needed this in the first place is my way of thinking.) My understanding of the band was, eat less because you get full on 1/3 less. That was the concept and the dream of the band that I hung onto.

I knew I had the tool (if indeed it worked). I refused to give up. I was certain if I hit the sweet spot, I would lose. I had experienced a light restriction if I ate a little to fast or to big of bite, but not enough to stop me from eating the amount of food nessecary to lose weight. I would of course just slow it down and take smaller bites, but continued to chow until I was full. I def. wasnt going to keep weight off this way. So, I trucked back time and time again for fill after fill.

What is most frustrating is when you think you've got the right amount of fill and your body changes with the band. At any given time you will experience light restriction, no restriction, some restriction, full restriction, even with the proper amount of restriction. Some days, I cannot eat a thing, only soup. Other days, I can eat a meal. It's hard to plan. But........it is better than anything I have ever tried prior to surgery. You learn to live with it. I rarely think about food anymore. The thought of food and what my next meal will be tends to disappear since I probably won't be eating much anyway.

You've read all about the learning curve and it is what it is. Is it 100% effective everyday? NO. If it is effective MOST of the time, you will succeed, while still enjoying most all foods you love, just in smaller quantities.

Hang in there with the fills process. Believe you made the right choice after doing your research and the desision you made to have the surgery.

PS. Keep posting. > When I find time, I love to read your posts and others.

Teri

[NoWorry]

I have been asked how many fills will I need to get to lose all the weight I need to. I always answer that I have read about people with VG bands needing up to 5 or 6 fills in the first year after being banded. I guess it depends on the person and their needs and tolerances with certain levels of each fill. I know that the normal first fill is usually 4cc with the VG band, but I was only able to tolerate 3.2cc. Now, I know I need another one since the July 27th fill. I could tell about two weeks after. I cannot get one right now because of finances, but will for sure in a few weeks.

Please give this question some thought: If you had been told before you had the surgery that you needed 1 fill for approximately every 12 pounds of weight that you needed to lose (and I'm now genuinely coming to believe that this is a fact, although the actual number could easily be anywhere from 10 to 15 lbs), would you still have had the surgery?

Good luck and hang in there. I hope all your future fills will be successful. I have read alot about people wanting to get to their "sweet spot" faster, but then suffer for it. Just be patient and you will reach that spot eventually.

Thanks very much, Judy. I genuinely appreciate your good wishes. I think, though, that I did hit the sweet spot on my first fill. And then I lost some weight and it passed. I actually think I've hit my sweet spot again on this fill (although it might be a bit early to tell, since my fill was only 5 days ago), but I'm sure that this, too, will pass and I'll need another fill as soon as I lose another 10-15 lbs.