The Shoutbox, PMs & Reporting Posts

[Chad]

Sorry everyone, but the Shoutbox is gone. I installed it thinking people would use it with respect and have some fun with it. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case.

It saddens me to say it, but the entire PM system may very well be next. It is also being abused by some members. We do not have the ability to moderate PMs, so unless they are sent to us we will not see them and can't take action.

Over the last few months we've gotten a few complaints about why some posts are deleted and others are not. The answer is quite simple. The ones that don't get deleted were most likely never reported. If you see something inappropriate just use the Report button so we're notified. Unfortunately, we don't have the time to sit and read every single post on this forum. In fact, I personally rarely have the time to read any of them. So please...report posts you even think may be inappropriate.

Chad

[Guest mansaw]

awwwwwwwwwwww that sucks...I was wondering where the shoutbox went...I dont know who posted something bad - must have missed it. Sure was nice for us newly post -ops!

[Chad]

I dont know who posted something bad - must have missed it.

I hated to see it go as well, but the fact that most of us miss what is said there is exactly the problem. It can't be properly moderated...so all I hear is "this person said this" and "this person said that" without having anything to look at.

[chopper]

Well you dont really have much to offer us then do you. Guess if no one uses this site that would even be alot less maintenance huh. Happy friggin new year!

Added in edit,

Sorry. I posted this when I was starting my TOM. Oh wait I'm a guy. DOH!! I was just upset we lost the PM's as it was a way for me to communicate with a few others and I looked forward to logging in to see if there were any messages. I'm sure this site will still be a wealth of information for all especially newbies like myself once they are gone.

[DaGreen]

I hated to see it go as well, but the fact that most of us miss what is said there is exactly the problem. It can't be properly moderated...so all I hear is "this person said this" and "this person said that" without having anything to look at.

Why couldn't you notify us of you deleting the PM's? I had a TON of fantastic information via pm's, email addresses and mailing addresses that I would have liked to have retrieved before you chose to do this.

WOW, just WOW!

Chopper, I agree. There isn't much to offer from this site any longer.

[Chad]

Why couldn't you notify us of you deleting the PM's? I had a TON of fantastic information via pm's, email addresses and mailing addresses that I would have liked to have retrieved before you chose to do this.

WOW, just WOW!

Chopper, I agree. There isn't much to offer from this site any longer.

Fair enough....I've enabled the PM system again so everyone can get any information out of there that they need. Collect any emails, phone numbers, etc...I'll shut it down again in a week or so. The PM system has been the catalyst for almost every bit of drama this forum has been plagued with. The purpose of this forum is to provide a public support forum. It was never meant to be a private messaging system. I'll take full responsibility for that. I should have never installed the PM system or Shoutbox in the first place.

[nothereanymore]

It was a great site before these were installed, we'll be fine with it gone. It was fun while it lasted and it is too bad its gone.

Here’s what I’m going to do, I’ll just go to gmail and get myself a new email alias. A generic one that I’ll use to reach out to other bandsters only on this site. I can put it up in my post and then delete it if I don’t want it out there for all time and eternity. (So it can’t be picked up by people who can’t control them selves).

Where theres a will, there's a way.

Chad is there a problem doing something like this?

Also we have a forum already that we can reactivate, we use to have group get together’s on Mondays and it was fun. Nothing stopping us from doing that again if we want too.

[Chad]

A lot of people use a separate email address to post of forums and public sites. If you have good friends on here that you like to chat with a lot I would suggest getting an actual Instant Messaging program like Google Talk or Yahoo IM. Those are far easier to use than the PM system on a forum like this.

[Guest mansaw]

I just feel that we are all adults - if someone is posting things in chat or pms that we dont like - just ignore it - who cares, they are just being idiots...if u ignore it then they eventually leave.

oh well

[Dolittle]

I just feel that we are all adults - if someone is posting things in chat or pms that we dont like - just ignore it - who cares, they are just being idiots...if u ignore it then they eventually leave.

oh well

Sorry, I've suggested this several times,, but there's parties to this that will not listen to those suggestions. Then it spills over to the main forum. When it does that,, someone at the top is not happy,,,,

[BandDiva]

Sorry, I've suggested this several times,, but there's parties to this that will not listen to those suggestions. Then it spills over to the main forum. When it does that,, someone at the top is not happy,,,,

Very Sad. Very Childish. Does Dr. O see all this Bullish. He would have to just shake his head at all of this. I have tried to stay out of it, but ENOUGH already. My email is redcarpetdana@gmail.com for anyone who wants to stay in touch & I am on facebook. Dana Hart-Ball

I really hope everyone can focus on their weight loss, health, happiness and get over themselves! We should all be equal here. We are all after the same thing-or should have the same goal.

[Will T]

I am disappointed. The action you've taken has damaged the site.

If moderators monitor the site daily, your number of issues becomes trivial, because they are nipped as minor problems instead of being allowed to blossom, or avalanche into HUGE problems like those that have caused others to leave the site.

Before, we've had issues with a troll, and the problem DISAPPEARED because several moderators kept a close eye and before we know it, the problem was cured.

I agree with Donna. The solution is not to strip away the amenities, it's to correctly monitor and moderate their use. Set standards that ALL the moderators understand, and initiate them. Yes, you will need more moderators, but most bulletin board sites have 10-12, so no one gets stuck with the burden of reading the entire site.

Please make the PROPER decisions, and get the site back to where it is useful.

[Chad]

The solution is not to strip away the amenities, it's to correctly monitor and moderate their use.

You've pretty much pin-pointed the main problem with that statement. It's not possible for us to monitor and moderate the PMs and Shoutbox.

[snowbird]

I think we need to realize exactly what this site is: a forum sponsored by our surgeons for the use of his and other patients. It's a service they provide for us. It is not an open forum simply for lap band patients, although it is available for non OCC patients. It reflects upon OCC when we behave badly, and Dr Ortiz and his staff ( including his unpaid moderators) have the right to monitor and delete parts of the forum when and if the users misuse it. There are other forums out there that are not connected with and do not reflect upon OCC that you can use. I think it is unfortunate that the bad behavior of a few people required the moderators' actions, but they have to do what they feel is best for Dr Ortiz and his clinic. That is their job.

[Will T]

You've pretty much pin-pointed the main problem with that statement. It's not possible for us to monitor and moderate the PMs and Shoutbox.

Leave off the shoutbox then. If anyone misuses the PMs, then disable it for those who misuse it ONLY. It's simple for me to forward an improper PM to you. One warning, then zing.... loss of privilege for the offender. That is what we were TOLD would happen months ago, when someone else began sending rude PMs.

[Will T]

I think we need to realize exactly what this site is: a forum sponsored by our surgeons for the use of his and other patients. It's a service they provide for us. It is not an open forum simply for lap band patients, although it is available for non OCC patients. It reflects upon OCC when we behave badly, and Dr Ortiz and his staff ( including his unpaid moderators) have the right to monitor and delete parts of the forum when and if the users misuse it. There are other forums out there that are not connected with and do not reflect upon OCC that you can use. I think it is unfortunate that the bad behavior of a few people required the moderators' actions, but they have to do what they feel is best for Dr Ortiz and his clinic. That is their job.

Then experienced moderators (and most moderators on bulletin board sites are unpaid) should be brought in, wouldn't you agree?

If you're saying that "it's THEIR site and they can do with it what they want" then it isn't really performing the service the doctors intended for it. On the contrary, I've NEVER seen input either first or second-hand from any of the OCC doctors. If they REALLY care, they would make input for the questions.. the SERIOUS questions many of the posters post, wouldn't you agree?

There are solutions to the issues presented here that are obvious, that are effective, and that do not 'hack off' features. I am one of many suggesting that the other solutions be initiated for the benefit of the site.

[Chad]

Then experienced moderators (and most moderators on bulletin board sites are unpaid) should be brought in, wouldn't you agree?

If you're saying that "it's THEIR site and they can do with it what they want" then it isn't really performing the service the doctors intended for it. On the contrary, I've NEVER seen input either first or second-hand from any of the OCC doctors. If they REALLY care, they would make input for the questions.. the SERIOUS questions many of the posters post, wouldn't you agree?

There are solutions to the issues presented here that are obvious, that are effective, and that do not 'hack off' features. I am one of many suggesting that the other solutions be initiated for the benefit of the site.

There are many other ways (as I've already suggested) for the members to keep in touch outside of our public forum. There is also a way to email members (who allow it) directly from their profile page. This is a good way to exchange information and set up other ways to stay in contact. Removing the PM service really isn't that big of a deal. And again, this site was never meant to be a private messaging service.

I'm not exactly sure how you define a "serious" question, but I would suggest that if any patient ever has something that feels like a serious question or issue they should call one of the doctors and ask them directly. They are usually quite good about answering and returning calls. This forum is for general support. It's not meant to replace direct contact with your doctor if you ever have any serious issues.

An experienced forum moderator? If you have any recommendations for one just let me know. I've never really heard of one myself...and I've been an active member of dozens of forums over the years dating all the way back to pre "world wide web" when they were still called BBS's and you needed to connect via Telnet. I've seen virtually every type of troll and drama starter you can imagine. Am I experienced? Probably as much as a person can be. Will I always make the right decision? Certainly not. I just try to keep the peace for as many people as I can. It's never possible to please everyone.

[tnm75]

What is really sad is that you (the moderators) have allowed "the trolls" and "the idiots" to win. If something is coming from "higher up" it would be nice for all of us to hear from that person or persons. Sure we can keep connected outside of the forums, but for convenience sake the PM system would be preferred. No wonder why people keep leaving the forum... this is definitely childish and immature! I would not invite someone who is thinking of being banded to join this forum... it's like the bullies on the playground are running the place. Disheartening! And, disgusting! And, unfortunately... it reflects badly on the OCC. And, more specifically Dr. Ortiz. That saddens me because he is such a wonderful doctor who has dedicated his life to bettering lives. Get rid of the shoutbox, if you must. But, removing the PM system is a bit extreme. If a PM is truly inappropriate and reported, ban the author on the first offense... no if-s, and-s or butt-s. And, if someone is on the receiving end and cannot accept that there are rude and inconsiderate people in the world... then is a "public forum" really the place for them to be? Geez... report it and move on. The world is full of idiots that have too much time on their hands. If "the reporter" cannot accept that banning a member is the end of the line, then don't allow them to dwell on it... and, ban them too. You know for a fact that "the trolls" and "the idiots" are sitting back and laughing because they have succeeded in removing two functions that 99% of the posters truly love, enjoy and use in an appropriate manner. A public forum is that... public. And, just because one poster does not agree or have the same belief system of another poster does not necessarily make one more right then the other. Perhaps Dr. Ortiz should consider handing the moderating abilities over to people that actually have the time or get to know all of us and have the time to read and respond to posts. The only time I really hear from a moderator (except Dolittle) is at times like this.

Kristy

[snowbird]

Generally speaking, the moderators are old bandsters who have gone beyond the emotional highs and lows of the newbies. They don't contribute a lot to the general threads because your concerns are no longer their concerns, and those who have been banded a while but are still regular contributors usually come up with good advice and support statements. They chime in once in a while when something needs clarifying or when no solid answer is provided by the regularly contributing bandsters. But otherwise, being banded is not the central core of their lives anymore. They have moved on emotionally.

The advantage to that is basically just what I said: they are no longer so emotionally invested in the forum or in the newly banded life. That's a plus, not a minus in a moderator. They read a lot more than they post here.

When you ban a persistent troll, they just jump back in with another login name.

My happiness and well-being doesn't depend on the shoutbox or the PM system. If the moderators don't want to deal with the problems caused by the admittedly few people who make trouble, that's up to them. I can deal with it.

[JazzyJude]

Well, if anyone is interested to keep in touch, my email is jazzyjude88@yahoo.com.

Sorry this has come to this but we need to get back to focusing our weight loss journey, to move forward. Let's not forget that this forum is benefitting us from Dr Ortiz and his staff. If we continue, this website could be lost and I don't want this to happen. I came on as a newbie and I've learned so much, and I am still learning as I go. I am happy to share my experiences with the newer newbies.

So with this said...

Let's us raise our champagne glass of protein shake up in the air...I am toasting to all of you a wonderful, properous new year with all of us enjoying our band journey and may it be rewarding to you as you've reached your goal weight.

((HUGS!))...Salute!

[Will T]

well said, Kristy.

one of the other forums contains a thread where this board is discussed, and it is JUST what you said. Several are trashing THIS forum, because of "artbitrary" censorship (I am not passing a judgement, just commenting on their posts) and it DIRECTLY imparts negativism toward OCC and Dr. Ortiz.

We agree that the solutions are simple. Warn, then ban, just as the rules for use state.

What happened before, when snowbird pulled a Queen Fiona on a troll, solved a lot of issues quickly. The troll came in, started a LOT of trouble because several posters were posting LOTS of off-topic posts, and no moderators were adusting the threads (moving off topic posts to the off topic category). No moderator sent this troll any notice that his comments were out of line... until snowbird joined us. The problem took a few days, then the troll appeared a few times in a "fake moustache and glasses" and had to be booted a few more times before he got the message. I hear he resurfaced again, and that HE started the ruckus in the shoutbox. ONE person caused it all to shut down.

And, he is laughing his backside off at the board now, because HE won, thanks to Chad's decisions.

Sorry, Chad, if you feel I am being critical, but... I guess I am being critical of the choice of solution. The shoutbox was added because people wanted a chatroom. A nice feature, but, as people said, tough to enforce rules within it.

The PMs... when I received one from the troll when he threatened to call my BOSS and my family, I sent copies to two moderators, who suggested I ignore him. Sheeesh... Ignore someone who has threatened to try and get me fired?? It showed the lack of strength of the persons in charge. Snowbird was the one who kicked the crap out of the troll - several weeks later, when she got involved.

[Cujo]

The troll came in, started a LOT of trouble because several posters were posting LOTS of off-topic posts, and no moderators were adusting the threads (moving off topic posts to the off topic category). No moderator sent this troll any notice that his comments were out of line... until snowbird joined us. The problem took a few days, then the troll appeared a few times in a "fake moustache and glasses" and had to be booted a few more times before he got the message. I hear he resurfaced again, and that HE started the ruckus in the shoutbox. ONE person caused it all to shut down.

Yeesh, I check this board twice a day and totally missed this drama. I thought this was about too many soup recipes. lol

I've never used the shoutbox and I think i've had two pm's since I've signed up and they were from my wife. I won't miss them at all.

(the site features, not messages from my wife...those are always welcome..Hi hun!)

[Chad]

well said, Kristy.

one of the other forums contains a thread where this board is discussed, and it is JUST what you said. Several are trashing THIS forum, because of "artbitrary" censorship (I am not passing a judgement, just commenting on their posts) and it DIRECTLY imparts negativism toward OCC and Dr. Ortiz.

We agree that the solutions are simple. Warn, then ban, just as the rules for use state.

What happened before, when snowbird pulled a Queen Fiona on a troll, solved a lot of issues quickly. The troll came in, started a LOT of trouble because several posters were posting LOTS of off-topic posts, and no moderators were adusting the threads (moving off topic posts to the off topic category). No moderator sent this troll any notice that his comments were out of line... until snowbird joined us. The problem took a few days, then the troll appeared a few times in a "fake moustache and glasses" and had to be booted a few more times before he got the message. I hear he resurfaced again, and that HE started the ruckus in the shoutbox. ONE person caused it all to shut down.

And, he is laughing his backside off at the board now, because HE won, thanks to Chad's decisions.

Sorry, Chad, if you feel I am being critical, but... I guess I am being critical of the choice of solution. The shoutbox was added because people wanted a chatroom. A nice feature, but, as people said, tough to enforce rules within it.

The PMs... when I received one from the troll when he threatened to call my BOSS and my family, I sent copies to two moderators, who suggested I ignore him. Sheeesh... Ignore someone who has threatened to try and get me fired?? It showed the lack of strength of the persons in charge. Snowbird was the one who kicked the crap out of the troll - several weeks later, when she got involved.

One troll/member hasn't caused any of this to take place. This really illustrates how much takes place that most members never see. Currently, a total of 13,383 people have registered as a member of this site since I first installed it. If you look at the bottom of the main index page you can see that there are currently 5,328 registered members. That means I've deleted/banned a total of 8,055 accounts. These accounts were all trolls, spammers and bots. And you think one troll is responsible for this decision? Your one troll may be off somewhere laughing about what they think they've accomplished (which is quite sad, if you think about it). Really, they're just one more number...out of many.

This forum was around for years before our more recent problems started and will be around for many more. We didn't even have moderators on this forum for years. We never needed any. We also didn't have PMs for most of that time. Hmmm, that tells me something.

It doesn't bother me if you're critical of my decisions. I'm fully aware that it's not possible to make everyone happy. I'm also fully aware that out of the 5,000+ members and 2000+ visitors a day, it's only the same small handful that I'm hearing any complaints from.

[tnm75]

Was just throwing my thoughts out there. Definitely not trying to start issues. I'm sure that there is a lot that happens "behind the scenes." But, don't judge us for being blind to something(s) that are not shared with us. A lot of us don't have "a history" with the boards. I just call it like I see it... and, the bullies on the playground have won. No biggie, just wishing that the members that go by the rules aren't punished. But, it's obvious that we are and will continue to be.

Kristy

[Chad]

No biggie, just wishing that the members that go by the rules aren't punished. But, it's obvious that we are and will continue to be.

Kristy, I really, really wish there was a reliable way to accomplish this. The only way we would be able to properly moderate PMs is if we could read them in their original format. That's just not possible. Forwarding nasty PMs to the moderators could help a little but won't work in the long run. Let me explain why...

When you forward a PM to a moderator (or anyone for that matter), you're given the ability to edit the original message to say whatever you like. You could quite easily try to incriminate someone that did nothing wrong and then it becomes nothing more than a game of "he said, she said". There is no possible way for us to see the original conversation. Sad, yes. Also, quite true. I'm not trying to rule with an iron fist here. At this point, I just see no alternative.